2018-12-09 Indian Fascists

Today I had my first encounter with an Indian fascist, online. Here are some of the messages I wrote. It all started with me noticing their profile: “Proud Hindu. Nathuram Godse a hero.”

Nathuram Godse is the guy who killed Gandhi.

I asked: How do you explain “Nathuram Godse a hero”? That seems very distasteful to me.

I got back some blurb about opinions and freedom of speech.

I said: You have all the freedom of speech you deserve. I don’t have to support you or your words, though. That’s my freedom of speech.

I get back that it would be “hard” for me to understand Indian politics.

I said: I think it does come down to politics. If I get the impression that you support the denigration of Muslims (see that toot about the hijab), then of course I will draw a line to the massacres in Gujarat. If you think Nathuram Godse was a hero, then perhaps you think Gandhi deserved a death sentence without a trial, which I find objectionable... And nationalism is not a defence. We did have National Socialism in Europe, after all.

So all in all, I don’t think you have to bend over and self-censor your words. But I totally don’t support them. And just as I wouldn’t want to provide a platform for nationalists here in Switzerland, I don’t think I need to provide a platform for nationalists in India.

I get back lists of crimes from the wars of India and Pakistan, of the crimes that started it all in Gujarati, and so on. It was a long list. “Do a little research,” he said. Ah, same old same old, adding some insults.

“Fact dont care about your feeling. Hopefully You dont block me like liberals do😁😂😂😂” OMG, why do they all write like children?

I said: Well, I’m certainly not interested in talking to you, given all the things you just wrote. Do you not see who benefits when spreading this one dimensional thinking? Do you think another war, another persecution will fix things? Of course not. What’s your plan for peace in 50 years? Of course it’s always possible to find atrocities on both sides of a conflict. But if every act of violence justifies the next, then that’s what you’re going to achieve.

So given my Indian friends, and my Pakistani friends, and what I know about the history of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, and of the recent political developments in India, I know that your brand of nationalism is the one that is going to drag the country down. Nothing will ever get better with that attitude. This is not the attitude required of a good soldier, it’s an insult to demand this kind of uncritical thinking. You can do better, and others are doing better.

I got more messages with crimes committed intermixed with jibes and insults.

I said: Stop sending me your insults (baby bubble etc) and learn to look across the edge of your world. The crimes you mention don’t justify an equally abhorrent policy. How will your Hindu nationalism solve this problems? Will you support ethnic cleansing? The facts are true but the conclusions you draw will result in more of the same: more war, more forced conversions, more rape. If you think Narendra Modi was never involved in a scam, you should start learning more him and his party.

Start some reading: “The purpose was to polarise Gujarati society and attract Hindu voters to the BJP.” (The candidate from Gujarat, 2014)

You are exactly one of the gullible ones who fell for the simple plot, as old as humanity.

I was told that western media are “always” making Hindu nationalism look bad. Oh well.

I said: Well, what if I had a dozen more articles to prove my point. All lies as well? How will we ever communicate, then. You have shut yourself off from reasonable arguments. Don’t be enraged by anecdotes of violence even if they are true. You are being made a tool to keep other people in power. People who don’t have solutions for your country and who think it’s not in their best interest of you learn more. I don’t have anything to gain from it. But the nationalists do.

Think about it! If foreigners can never understand your situation, then only your leaders can. How convenient for them!

And finally, when I said in a toot that I was “taking one for the team,” as I was talking to a Hindu nationalist, I got a public message. And that’s why I feel ok putting their name, here.

I said: @vaibhavgupta Well, as I told you in that long exchange I think you’re being a tool for your leaders and you don’t even realize it. Perhaps one day you will. You write about my filter bubble but when I link my sources you claim they don’t understand because only your sources know the truth. 🤷‍♂️ That’s why it’s useless to talk to you. Live your Indian fascist dreams, for now. See where they take you.

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Comments

“...as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless... almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come.” --George Orwell

You’re basically accusing him of being a thought criminal. Which is not something you say to persuade someone, it’s something you say to shut someone up.

Which is why you’re getting back blurbs about free speech.

– Anonymous 2018-12-10 01:20 UTC


I think that quote has been superseded by Umberto Eco’s essay on Ur-Fascism.

I’d be interested in what you would have told him, particularly in terms of persuasion. I did have a plan, after all: to sow the seeds of doubt.

I also think you are misusing the term “thought criminal”. I’m not accusing him of thinking the wrong things. I’m accusing him of saying the wrong things, in public. Free speech means you get to say what you want and so do I. In his particular case he wanted something from me (to be listed on a site I run) and I denied that request based on the things he said. Hardly a case of free speech being denied but of speech having consequences.

– Alex Schroeder 2018-12-10 06:30 UTC


Indeed. It is a fine line that is sometimes not immediately clear in the heat of the moment. The fact that unpleasant people exist is a consequence of free speech.

AlokSingh 2018-12-10 13:22 UTC


You simply removed big piece of talk from our conversation although i was searching for a link for privacy related information which includes some alternative but end up here. So here is link of quora why he killed gandhi? https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Nathuram-Godse-assassinate-Gandhi And you can buy his book why i killed gandhi? he didn’t run away from that place as he wanted to let people know why he killed gandhi? And as per your article i picked out their mistake and which make it clear that they simply targetting India and modi to showcase him in a bad light.

– Anonymous 2018-12-14 05:14 UTC


I simply left your part out because I didn’t think it was right to repost your words without your permission and I don’t feel like asking for it. You can thank copyright for that.

– Alex Schroeder 2018-12-14 11:14 UTC


You cherry picked although i dont care much about you or this blog/wiki. It was okay to Put my name link it to my Profile?(Hopefully you will remove than).

– Anonymous 2018-12-14 11:37 UTC


Feel free to copy and paste the things you actually said. Providing a direct link to the things you said would have been easier, but it was all direct messages so that’s not possible. I think providing a link to your profile is a fair compromise. People will be able to follow the link and decide for themselves whether you are an Indian fascist or not.

I actually like the top answer at Quora.

– Alex Schroeder 2018-12-14 17:11 UTC


Well they can see how you cherry pick.they can see you removed a big part of conversation and they can see you choose most stupid answer that doesn’t consists fact go pat your own back.Go and live in your safe space.I will make those toots public and pinned in my profile dont you worry.

– Anonymous 2018-12-14 17:48 UTC


Excellent!

– Alex Schroeder 2018-12-14 20:27 UTC


Sadly, all Vaibhav Gupta managed to put on his profile is more insults.

Oh, and his part of the conversation appears to be gone for good. How convenient for him... But to be honest, I don’t miss it. And I think the insults speak for themselves.

– Alex Schroeder 2019-01-17 12:12 UTC


Still not convinced? Check out the profile. Just recently, he tooted something about Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose:

Celebrating the life of the unsung hero of the Indian freedom struggle on his birth anniversary.
#NetajiSubhasChandraBose
@inditoot, 2019-01-23

Check him out on Wikipedia. I only got as far as this: “… differences with Mahatma Gandhi … arrived in Germany in April 1941, … a Free India Centre was set up in Berlin, … A 3,000-strong Free India Legion, comprising Indians captured by Erwin Rommel’s Afrika Korps, was also formed to aid in a possible future German land invasion of India.”

If he’s not a fascist, then who is?

– Alex Schroeder 2019-02-03 20:19 UTC


At least there’s this:

We are shutting down inditoot.

Oh well...

😘

– Alex Schroeder 2019-04-18 20:53 UTC


Oh, I just discovered that I wrote about Indian fascists back in 2005, too.

– Alex Schroeder 2019-07-27 18:47 UTC


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