Comments on 2019-02-14 Narcissism

Wow, this is a great post.

– Anonymous 2019-02-14 21:55 UTC


I also recommend Thank You, Mandy by Michael Prescott about the importance of feelings, and how the idea of using legal arguments to decide who to be friends with is a “reasonable-sounding bad idea.”

If you want to see examples of how the duping actually went – because it’s hard to imagine if you haven’t experienced it, and because it’s important to recognize it when you meet somebody with narcissist tendencies, here are some links:

I’m listing these blog posts because it’s interesting to see how the magic works, and it’s important to me that it not work again the next time.

Sadly, in our lives, we will probably meet more narcissists. Some of us will be charmed and end up entangled in a web of obligations and deception, others will feel something is wrong but can’t put their finger on it, and most of us will want to lead our lives and will not want to be part of lynch mobs and witch trials. And yet, we will need to work together. We need to realize as a group that there is a somebody amongst us taking advantage of how we feel.

I don’t want to fall for it again.

– Alex Schroeder 2019-02-15, 2019-02-16


Also interesting: In Repercussions, Brendan talks about the slow realization that friends are disappearing, that you you need to watch you words near somebody who is as aggressive online as Zak was and how that drives people away even if they didn’t do anything wrong. And he talks about one of the remedies I mentioned, too: sending direct messages.

We really do need to warn each other, support each other, organize our response. Together we stand, divided we fall.

– Alex Schroeder 2019-02-19 06:50 UTC


And also interesting: In I Don't Know What to Think, with a more legal mindset, basically expanding on the point how most people who have practically no connection to accused or accuser cannot sure (”beyond all reasonable doubt”) of what happened.

But then again, that’s self-evident to me (now, I guess I should add?) – we can believe things without convicting people. We can end friendships and make financial decisions based on hearsay. There is not perfect justice in this world.

I loved this anonymous comment:

Lord save me from ignorant people who bandy around legal terms on elf game blogs. I include myself in this.

Hearsay refers to a statement not made as oral evidence in court during trial. It can be evidence in some circumstances.

More importantly, if this situation is being treated as a criminal trial […] the statements by Mandy and co should be treated as being made in the course of the trial, i.e. as oral evidence, which is admissible without any of the caveats that apply to hearsay.

You can’t have it both ways - requiring people to apply the standard of proof that only applies during a criminal trial, while treating the accusers’ statements as being made wholly outside any legal process.

Like, I don’t know whether people have just watched too much CSI and think that ‘evidence’ only refers to CCTV and forensics and all that exciting HARD PHYSICAL EVIDENCE in little plastic bags, because they’re in for a rude surprise if they ever end up in court.

Statements made by people are evidence. That’s what a witness statement is. Multiple statements that corroborate each other are generally pretty good evidence, and can certainly be sufficient for conviction. People get sentenced to prison (actual prison, not ‘no one will buy my books or art and now I have to work a normal job’) every day on the basis of oral evidence. All this bleating about hearsay and evidenceless accusations and people’s lives being ruined is based on ignorance about what’s actually involved in the criminal process - which, again, this is not, so you would be perfectly justified in not requiring the same standards of proof, evidence, etc.

– Anonymous

Definitely stuff I hadn’t thought through myself.

– Alex Schroeder 2019-02-19 15:54 UTC


A thought I had about Narcissists, but about domestic abuse: Werewolves as a Metaphor for Domestic Abusers.

– Alex Schroeder 2019-02-22 16:55 UTC


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